Unusual ABS/Traction Control Problem - 2007 VE S6

[Nitro_X]

Hi Folks
Just registered tonight!

So I have this unusual ESP / traction control problem, took the vehicle to two mechanics and neither can figure out the problem, the second workshop is a performance workshop with 2 scan tools, one of which is the VCM suite tech 2, they have experienced and trained techs and have worked on a lot of late model Commodores.

Ok, so the problem: The traction control switches itself off/on, giving the usual dash lights and notification beep when switching off.
We took the car for a test drive and over 5kms it switched itself off/on 27 times!
(I've previously done a physical and visual check of the wiring looms to all four wheels)

The tech can clear the fault codes but cannot clear the 'memory' (not sure what they mean exactly by 'memory') how is this different from clearing the codes?

They are doing some research and will get back to me, hopefully with a solution, they did mention a possible data corruption within the ECM and It "may" need to be flashed but they are unable to flash the eeprom ( I assume a fully equipped Holden workshop should be able to do this?)

Here is a list of the fault codes:
U0121 - CAN message from central gateway malfunction
P0101 - Mass air flow circuit outside specified range (note: I fitted a K&N high flow air filter some time ago - standard intake setup)
P0500 - Driving speed sensor outside specified range
C0561 - CAN data bus faulty
C0899 - Battery voltage too low (note: this could be an old fault code from July 2012 when Holden workshop replaced battery, they checked battery voltage today and is GOOD, plus I don't have any problem cranking engine - it starts easy)

Any thoughts, ideas or cash donations gratefully accepted

 

[Smithky]

I have a problem of my cruise control will deactivate it's self randomly and won't reactivate and sometimes when this happens the traction control turns its self off and won't come back on at all I have ran a scan tool when this happens with out getting any error codes at all I have to turn the car off for at least 30 seconds before I can use cruise and to turn traction control back on this is in a 2008 omega

 

[Xplaya]

Even though the battery volts sound good, If it was me, I would give another battery a go. (Borrow someones maybe)
Cant remember exact details, but ive read a bad battery can cause wierd problems with these VEs..

 

[ChRiDDa]

Have you pulled the rear ABS loom out of the car? The better halves car was showing similar symptoms a few years ago - Ended up being a break in the rear ABS loom wiring - Undetectable from a visual inspection - Ended up taking the punt and replacing the wiring loom - About $65 (genuine Holden) and voila! Takes about 15 minutes to fit and it fixed the problem - Never resurfaced

 

[Nitro_X]

Have you pulled the rear ABS loom out of the car? The better halves car was showing similar symptoms a few years ago - Ended up being a break in the rear ABS loom wiring - Undetectable from a visual inspection - Ended up taking the punt and replacing the wiring loom - About $65 (genuine Holden) and voila! Takes about 15 minutes to fit and it fixed the problem - Never resurfaced

Cheers for your reply.

No, I haven't physically removed the rear wiring loom but I have read of a few people having a problem with this.

Maybe these two fault codes are indicative of a wiring loom problem....

U0121 - CAN message from central gateway malfunction
C0561 - CAN data bus faulty

"data bus" is simply another term for electrical / data 'cable' (wire loom)

The 'data bus' is simply the wiring which transfers the information between all the sensors and the computer modules.

CAN = Controller Area Network
This is the same as a LAN (Local Area Network) for home computers (but with different protocols), it's just a network 'connecting' multiple computers together so they can talk to each other.

 

[Nitro_X]

Even though the battery volts sound good, If it was me, I would give another battery a go. (Borrow someones maybe)
Cant remember exact details, but ive read a bad battery can cause weird problems with these VEs..

Thanks man, I have some knowledge and experience with electronics and batteries.
It's quite easy to check battery function using a volt meter when you crank the engine.

Starter motors draw several hundred amps when cranking and there will be a drop in battery terminal voltage during this current draw, this is normal, unless it drops below a certain voltage.

The voltage of a fully charged, good battery, 'unloaded' should be 12.6 volts
With engine running, the charge voltage on the VE should be 14.4 volts

When the starter motor is cranking the engine from a COLD start, the battery voltage should not drop below 11 volts, if it does, it means the battery is building up internal resistance and is deteriorating. Anything from 11V and above, the battery is fine.
Though the engine may still start between 10.5 - 11 volts if it's warmed up and daylight (so the headlights won't switch on)
It shouldn't take longer than 3 seconds to start the engine.

The electronics will have a tolerance of +/- 0.5V to 1.5V

Older cars without electronics, you could crank the engine for as long as the battery can supply enough current but as the voltage keeps dropping, due to battery internal resistance, circuit resistance, and energy depletion, you would hear the crank speed slow down until the point where the battery simply had no juice left.
The electronics on the VE don't allow for this to occur, the voltage must be within a pre-programmed specified limit, or the engine simply won't crank at all.

 

[Nitro_X]

Took my car to Holden today, got the technician to do a software update on the ECU. (MY07 SV6)

Engine check light now gone
Traction control functioning normally.

Took it for a drive around town and for a squirt out on the highway.

I'm a happy bloke

 

[VS_Pete]

Thanks for letting us know mate.

 

[Nitro_X]

I wanted to add some more info here for a couple of reasons.

1. I'm on a steep learning curve myself in regards to modern vehicle diagnostics
2. It might help someone else.

Recap:
Traction control - Electronic Stability Program (ESP) would turn itself off/on randomly.
I noted this seemed to occur only in a speed range of approximately 30km/h - 70km/h

After doing more reading on this forum and more research/brain work, I realised some vital information was staring me in the face.

The first tech who connected a scan tool, couldn't figure out what the issue was, so he said jump in and we took the car for a test drive with the scan tool connected, while I sat in the passenger seat monitoring the data...live diagnostic I call it.
He set it into a specific mode which displayed speed sensor inputs to the ECU

I can't remember all the input references but the four I was focussing on were the four wheel speed sensors.

When the fault showed up, producing audible warning / dash light warning that the ESP was off...then on again, I noticed that all the data signals from the wheel speed sensors were stable and identical.
We could view the data in two modes: speed (mph) & graphical (like a stepped sign wave signal)
All data input signals from the four wheel speed sensors were GOOD

What this tells me is that the wheel speed sensors and the wire loom / connectors were all good, the ECU input nodes were receiving good signals from all four wheel sensors, so the fault was further along the circuit, either internal to the ECU or the ABS module.

Fast forward a week later, the ECU software update by Holden service fixed the issue.
My conclusion is that their was some kind of software/data corruption within the ECU.


ps
Typo in my thread title should read SV6, not S6

 

[VS_Pete]

"1. I'm on a steep learning curve myself in regards to modern vehicle diagnostics"

Short story.
Had same codes coming now and then over 3years about twice a year fix reset codes.
Last time running real bad got it to dealer reset codes no fault found.
So I got a ebay reader and it happen two more times so just reset codes myself off I go.